Undertale

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Dekar The Great
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Re: Undertale

Postby Dekar The Great » Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:51 am

SinRevi told me that there was Undertale talk happening on the Lufia world forums.

Just got done playing it (True Pacifist) a few days ago... AND I LOVE IT SO MUCH.
Lufia V: For the Savior Demo 2.2 and Welcome to Ostiaka Out Now!

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Re: Undertale

Postby Guard Daos » Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:08 am

Dekar the Great! You're back! Long time no see! And finally a fellow Undertale lover too! :D
I completed all three paths (though I reset before the end of genocide) and finished Pacifist for the second time yesterday.
I love how every piece of dialogue gets a new meaning if you've seen the other paths.
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Re: Undertale

Postby SinReVi » Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:45 am

What the heck

Just played the end of the demo again and
]Flowey even commented on how I first killed Toriel, then reloaded and spared her, and now killed her again
Didn't think it would go that far with the alternate reactions =P
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Re: Undertale

Postby Guard Daos » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:59 pm

I know right. The creator is a genius. And it goes even further in the actual game.
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Re: Undertale

Postby SinReVi » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:47 pm

I bought Undertale in the sale (if I plan on playing this someday I might as well buy it now right?) and then out of curiosity I only wanted to check what would happen after leaving the ruins...
Well, my plan of saving undertale for later has failed! *spent more time on undertale in 5 days than my other 7 Steam games combined since I joined in July of 2014.

Currently on my third run.

spoilers Now I feel bad for killing everyone (especially Papyrus) since I befriended everybody in my previous playthrough =(
(unless you can befriend more monsters?)
Currently at the Mettaton newscast where everything is a bomb.
On my first playthrough I killed Toriel (on purpose since I killed her in the demo) and Greater Dog (didn't mean to) + some random monsters.


(I should have gone for the game + soundtrack bundle...)
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Guard Daos
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Re: Undertale

Postby Guard Daos » Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:45 pm

Haha, I know right! It's impossible to stop playing. So have you tried not killing anyone yet?
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Re: Undertale

Postby SinReVi » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:04 pm

Yeah I did, according to Dekar the great I got the True Pacifist ending
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Re: Undertale

Postby SinReVi » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:43 pm

21 hours of gameplay later... I still haven't defeated Sans!

*drops Mettaton fan art in this topic*

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(PS for the non-Dutch speaking people, ton means barrel in Dutch =P)
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Re: Undertale

Postby Guard Daos » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:46 am

METTATON :lol:

That's brilliant. As for your battle... Stay determined!
Have you, like me succumbed to the urge to find out on youtube what happens afterwards? Or are you still spoiler-free?
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Re: Undertale

Postby SinReVi » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:23 am

Now it's 22 hours... still trying!
I think I ran into some spoilers but I already forgot the details =P
If I abandon this playthrough, I'm afraid I won't get past Undyne again if I decide to retry this route later.
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Re: Undertale

Postby Rucah » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:38 am

You know, Undertale actually tells part of the same story that Lufia does. In the 90s, it was pretty clear cut most of the time from what I can tell, but, then around 2000, they switched to more modern versions.

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Re: Undertale

Postby Guard Daos » Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:22 pm

Rucah wrote:You know, Undertale actually tells part of the same story that Lufia does.


Hm.... how so?

Rucah wrote:In the 90s, it was pretty clear cut most of the time from what I can tell, but, then around 2000, they switched to more modern versions.


What was pretty clear cut? Modern versions of what?
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Re: Undertale

Postby Rucah » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:28 pm

Heh, sorry to be vague, but, it will take some explanation, and, if no one is paying attention, why put in the effort?

Lufia is the story of how "mad gods" called Sinistrals descend and start attacking humans. In the famous opening, a couple sacrifices their lives to stop them, and their story is retold in the prequel. Lufia, a young girl who is really a Sinistral, falls in love with the couple's descendant. Stuff happens, but, they are essentially together at the end.

"Mad gods" could be another term for "fallen angel", and the story Lufia tells did happen in Genesis. The books of 1 Enoch and Jasher give more information, but, the story is essentially that they were said to have married and mated with human women. They also corrupted the entire earth, which was the reason for the flood.

Selan and Maxim dying is an image of them destroying a normal human marriage. They also have their eyes on their decedent.

The Sinistrals came to destroy, did they not? The way they're listed in the game also sounds like the way that angels of both types are listed in Enoch, which is to say that they have a name, and job listed after them. In prophetic text (meaning to say, the non-literal meaning of a phrase), that is called an "anointing". This is also called "being given a jewel". It's what he has for you. There is nothing without purpose.

They're also said to have white hair and brilliant eyes, and be very beautiful.

Take a look at this artwork again:

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(Though, they're fond of pitchforks and often seen with them in the SNES games, like Triton, Posidon, and others.)

The "Dual Blade" also shows it's true significance in that picture. One blade is white and smooth, the other is black and edgy. Again, in prophetically speaking, a person's "sword" is known as their "will". If you take a minute to think about it, a lot of what swordsmen in games say might make sense if you think about it that way. The image of a mixed desire.("The tree of the knowledge of good and evil." The other tree only had a single desire, life.)

They made the dual blade, didn't they? I've seen several people wondering why they made the sword that ended up killing them, and that they were weak to. They know they'll be judged for what they did. Presenting that to humanity will, indeed, cost them greatly. Maxim and Selan, representatives of humanity who have faith in the power of the Dual Blade, are about to die. Poetically, they're "cut off" from the only thing that might have otherwise saved them. Maxim chooses to join his wife. "Maxim", as in, moral maxim, obviously.
Adam and Eve, in other words.

The Sinistrals are shown in both SNES games and Returns to destroy a newly married couple as an act of bitterness towards humanity. But, even under the name of love, "Lufia", they accomplished their purpose, and everyone was okay with it. This illustrates their desire that their impending judgement be forgone. You never see the fallen angel story without judgement being feared.

It's important that you understand the story is never a 1:1; gameplay mechanics must be considered, as well as easy to understand story telling, and whatever development limitations they have at the time.

"Estpolis: The Lands Cursed by the Gods." Because of their actions, there is now more than one god, and a deep seated desire in many people to dislike the creator when they hear of him. There are indeed other viable parties for your spiritual attentions, and many mention a "demiurge" that didn't know what he was doing when he made everything. Stories abound. They were locked in a pit in the end, so they couldn't continue their rampage.

Truth be told, I haven't fully played the SNES Lufia games, because I've only just found someone willing to ship both of them to me in New Zealand for less than a ransom. They're on their way, and I'll be able to have a full report after I've played them both fully, if you're interested.

Undertale takes this to a whole new level. If Lufia was ancient history, Undertale is today.

The quick overview of Undertale is that a little boy falls into a hole underground, and meets monsters he can interact with in whatever way he so chooses. While you were laughing yourself silly and fussing over the incredible gameplay mechanics and mind tricks, they told you the story again.

Despite the colorful range of characters and all of their sidelines, the main story focuses on the royal family. They're portrayed as white (pure/holy/heavenly) mammals (created beings) with horns (strength). Two of them have "el" in their name, the classic angel name suffix (Gabriel, Michael, etc.) Asgore is the odd man out.

You first meet Toriel, a kind, motherly figure that no one couldn't get along with. She insists you're a child, and you need taking care of. She is very feminine, very sweet, and insists that you're a child in need of caring for.

Asgore was once a respected ruler, and father figure to all, but, it's considered a terrible mistake that he killed children after a terrible accident with his son. He's now a broken mess. He still tries to get the job done, though.

Asriel, the offspring of these two, died in a tragic accident involving a trip to the surface for the sake of a human friend. It's for this reason the monsters are in conflict with humans. As a result of that, no one in this strange land knows how to feel about humans.

Asriel is also the true identity of Flowey, a corrupt, undead flower, bent on manipulating the circumstances of all of these characters, often working behind the scenes. He quickly and skillfully blames you, the human, and psychologically mind-warps you with his backwards logic, excusing all of his actions.
Asriel and Flowey both show an intense desire towards the human. What do humans possess that's special amongst everything in this world? Our influence in the world. This is often spoken of in Undertale language as "Determination". It's only them that has the ability to open gates, create new realities on the Earth; "dreams."

It's no secret that Flowey is obviously demonic. However, Asriel isn't. Flowey essentially came from Asriel. Asriel is also the "big boss"; the one with the most power, the most influential. It's his story, essentially.

Asriel is the fallen angel in this story. Locked away in despair, separated from everyone. He makes himself known, in part, by Flowey.

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Flowey is a genetically manipulated hybrid of an angel and an earthly organism. This is where demonic beings come from. When they die, their spirits have nowhere to go, because they don't get their life force from the same place.

Toriel is a corrupt feminine energy that demands everything her way. She constantly paints Asgore as someone who shouldn't be forgiven for what he did, and refuses to make up with him, despite his subsequent condemnation, and his insistence. She doesn't care that he's sorry- she can and will strike him back for what he's done. Toriel's judgments are fair, and his aren't.

This is a cruel attack on the necessity of a male's sense of law and justice. It's hard to be a father, because you're always "the bad guy" who has to set the scale, and make sure it's balanced for the sake of everything. This is a necessary and sometimes painful forfeit of mercy, as displayed by Asgore's destroying of that option by his own hand during the battle. He's also shown to have embers (from a forge) in his fight background, and attack with flames; a picture of judgement. He's presented as pitiful and like he doesn't even want to be himself. Full of "regret", as if he even hates that part of himself. What a malice-filled picture of God himself.

You are most rewarded for the forfeit of justice in this game, aren't you?

Maybe the creators knew, maybe they didn't. I would suppose they didn't, so, don't take this as a personal attack on any given party. I've never met them. Besides, this is two games out of several I've found this in, so, you know.

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Re: Undertale

Postby Rucah » Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:13 am

Heh, you know, you guys don't have to take me literally. I said, "they tell the same story." There are many ways to look at this world, and the parallels are still interesting. I can't say I knew what to expect from you, but ... Is that not the most awesome thing you've heard about Lufia in a while? That's incredible!

I'm admittedly new at all of this, so, some details I might get a little wrong. Sorry about that; doing my best. I, uh, actually can't help seeing things like that. I just thought ... Lufia! Wow!


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