[Discussion time!] What appeals you the most in Lufia (II)?

Talk about anything related to the Lufia series, and ask for gameplay tips.

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[Discussion time!] What appeals you the most in Lufia (II)?

Postby Anthony » Fri May 15, 2009 8:04 am

As the topic title says... what do you like most about the Lufia games? If a remake would be made, what would you change, scrap, add, or simply leave intact?

I absolutely loved the story, and would change nothing there. I think I'd add even more puzzles, as I love those myself.. maybe add some more skills like the arrow and firearrow. Perhaps a lamp, to light dungeons and solve puzzles, as with Zelda:aLttP. Any ideas on this account?

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Postby Lêi_Trigar » Fri May 15, 2009 4:21 pm

i'd make the battles in Lufia II much harder. that's the only thing i'd change.

though i like the idea of adding more puzzles, they were very well done in this game, and more would be awesome.
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Postby DarkMaster2101 » Fri May 15, 2009 6:42 pm

If I can't bust grunts in the face and shout about everyone better than me cheating online. Then I don't want it.

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Postby teefa85 » Fri May 15, 2009 9:29 pm

The puzzles were always my favorite part; I love having to sit and figure them out.
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Postby Anthony » Fri May 15, 2009 9:33 pm

^ I don't think I understood that, DarkMaster...


I can't seem to lose this idea, maybe you guys can shed a light on it. What if you could switch between characters on the fly, on the overworld map, and let them have special abilities on their own? A very dull example would be that Maxim could use the sword, while Artea has (fire)arrows. Selan could be equipped with magic of her own (really busting my brains on this one), Tia could perhaps use her whip to pull elements closer to the party, Guy is strong enough to use the hammer... stuff like that, but more, better. Would you find the switching too irritating if it was implemented?


Let's take it up a notch. Let's say you'd be able to control all characters seperately, but only one at a time. When controlling and moving Maxim, Selan stands still, and vice versa. This would give room for entirely different, and perhaps more challenging puzzles- but it will also mean some additional overhead. Say she'd normally follow you around, until you decide to split. Now, this has been used in many other games already, I imagine, but could be interesting when done well enough. I have my doubts though (as always, I'm still me :P)- would the switching soon become irritating? Lost Vikings pulled it off very well, while a gameboy puzzle game that slipped my mind failed miserably...

And if Selan would get unique dungeonpuzzle abilities, what would they be? Something magical, I assume... but just replacing the hammer by a blast of magic or something would be very cheap :D

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Postby Lêi_Trigar » Sat May 16, 2009 12:35 am

Anthony wrote:^ I don't think I understood that, DarkMaster...

i believe he's saying something along the lines of; "No Online Multiplayer, No Voice Chat, No Buy." or something like that...

Anthony wrote:I can't seem to lose this idea, maybe you guys can shed a light on it. What if you could switch between characters on the fly, on the overworld map, and let them have special abilities on their own? A very dull example would be that Maxim could use the sword, while Artea has (fire)arrows. Selan could be equipped with magic of her own (really busting my brains on this one), Tia could perhaps use her whip to pull elements closer to the party, Guy is strong enough to use the hammer... stuff like that, but more, better. Would you find the switching too irritating if it was implemented?

that reminds me of Breath of Fire. not sure how it'll work, but i can see it being a good and bad thing...

Anthony wrote:Let's take it up a notch. Let's say you'd be able to control all characters seperately, but only one at a time. When controlling and moving Maxim, Selan stands still, and vice versa. This would give room for entirely different, and perhaps more challenging puzzles- but it will also mean some additional overhead. Say she'd normally follow you around, until you decide to split. Now, this has been used in many other games already, I imagine, but could be interesting when done well enough. I have my doubts though (as always, I'm still me :P)- would the switching soon become irritating? Lost Vikings pulled it off very well, while a gameboy puzzle game that slipped my mind failed miserably...

And if Selan would get unique dungeonpuzzle abilities, what would they be? Something magical, I assume... but just replacing the hammer by a blast of magic or something would be very cheap :D

Tony

that does sound rather cool, but i think it's something that only should be done in rooms with puzzles in them...

and Selan's skill should be "Light", kinda like your lamp idea earlier. :D
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Postby Anthony » Sat May 16, 2009 2:45 pm

Haha, I had the very same idea on Light yesterdaynight as well :D The only spell only she can use in the original as well- and it could bring some possibilities. But I have to ponder a lot more about having multiple characters walking around simultaneously- it's a gameplay make-or-break, and requires a lot of thinking and planning, if someone were to try this concept. It starts with enough interesting skills :P

About online gameplay- I don't know. I myself would not mind if there was no online multiplay, perhaps even enjoy it more. As a coder, it means there's a crapload of sideparameters you have to take into account if you do- on lower levels, you could think of various connection speeds, packageloss, unstable connections, managing packagesize (how much data do we send each n ticks?), etc. On a higher level, you get managing X connections, holding a dedicated server, preventing cheaters, having people keeping order (GameMasters), generating enough interesting content on a regular basis, ecetera. Not something a few Lufians would be able to do in their sparetime, let alone one :) And after all that, you can still have the typical morons that seem to ruin loads of other MMO's for no apparant reason at all. I get the feeling that loads of games nowadays have online gameplay as a gimmmick, that does not always benefit the game. Sometimes, is simply okay to have an offline experience worth noting :)

Nah, should I create a Lufia game, it will definately be offline- the only online aspect I'd consider to add is to connect to a server for updates, chapters (levelpacks), and perhaps goodies of some sort...

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Postby DarkMaster2101 » Sat May 16, 2009 8:29 pm

Anthony wrote:I can't seem to lose this idea, maybe you guys can shed a light on it. What if you could switch between characters on the fly, on the overworld map, and let them have special abilities on their own? A very dull example would be that Maxim could use the sword, while Artea has (fire)arrows. Selan could be equipped with magic of her own (really busting my brains on this one), Tia could perhaps use her whip to pull elements closer to the party, Guy is strong enough to use the hammer... stuff like that, but more, better. Would you find the switching too irritating if it was implemented?


They did that with Ruins of Lore... And if failed. Miserably. I'd keep the Skill Item menu the way it is. Perhaps maybe add a couple of more items, remix some older ones, and done!

Character switching would probably be best for more of NPC interaction events kind of similar to Tales of Symphonia. And that is where I stop.

Anthony wrote:Let's take it up a notch. Let's say you'd be able to control all characters seperately, but only one at a time. When controlling and moving Maxim, Selan stands still, and vice versa. This would give room for entirely different, and perhaps more challenging puzzles- but it will also mean some additional overhead. Say she'd normally follow you around, until you decide to split.


I think that was done in Final Fantasy 6/3, but could be useful in certain events nonetheless.

Anthony wrote:About online gameplay...


Throw that idea out the window. Lufia was and never will be meant for any type of multi-player let alone online.

Anthony wrote:Nah, should I create a Lufia game, it will definately be offline...


Correction: The fan game will be offline. But I do have plans to bring Lufia online without the multi-player. What about leader boards for Ancient Cave speed runs and such. Another idea would be after you complete a certain point in the game have save spots connect to an online store that changes goods every week.

Better yet. A system of side quests you can download via online service. They may be simple quests or complicated side stories. Not exactly downloadable content but more of a guild that changes its content every week-month or so. I believe the game shouldn't end at Doom Island anymore. Instead, expand the game's events and branch out the story.
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Postby Anthony » Sat May 16, 2009 11:02 pm

DarkMaster2101 wrote:
They did that with Ruins of Lore... And if failed. Miserably. I'd keep the Skill Item menu the way it is. Perhaps maybe add a couple of more items, remix some older ones, and done!

Character switching would probably be best for more of NPC interaction events kind of similar to Tales of Symphonia. And that is where I stop.


I'm ashamed to admit that the only lufia game I ever played was Lufia II... from what I heard, RoL wasn't too good, not worthy of the experiences RotS offered... so I'll take your word for it, never change a winning team :D

It's been too long since I played ToS- I think I know what you mean, but could you give a small example? That the character you 'main' with interacts differently with NPC's if it's someone else everytime? Zelos getting gifts from women, for example? It's not a bad idea...

I think that was done in Final Fantasy 6/3, but could be useful in certain events nonetheless.


To quote South Park- "Simpsons did it!" :D

I have a hard time coming up with original ideas- I'm more of a code monkey, hehe.

Throw that idea out the window. Lufia was and never will be meant for any type of multi-player let alone online.


Then we agree on that much, haha :)

Correction: The fan game will be offline. But I do have plans to bring Lufia online without the multi-player. What about leader boards for Ancient Cave speed runs and such. Another idea would be after you complete a certain point in the game have save spots connect to an online store that changes goods every week.


Now that's an idea... Shopkeeper Chris trying to sell his goods, bwahaha! I like this a lot, and would fit well even in a solo player environment... nice find!

Better yet. A system of side quests you can download via online service. They may be simple quests or complicated side stories. Not exactly downloadable content but more of a guild that changes its content every week-month or so. I believe the game shouldn't end at Doom Island anymore. Instead, expand the game's events and branch out the story.


The idea I posted on gamefaqs (disguised as a question in Lei's topic, ghehe) is designing the game around chapters- downloadable files that would progress the story. Your idea is simmilar in a way, and I must say I think it's a good one. The chapters would bring some advantages; multiple people could work on seperate parts of the story, for example. To get a grasp of what I mean by chapter; in Lufia II, there's ample times where you cannot go to the next city before you performed a certain task; be it slaying a monster, getting a sword for a king, getting a ruby... stuff like that.

A chapter could have a dependancy- you can't fight the fish causing the earthquakes before fighting the lizard man that stole the key, for example (very small chapters, but you get the picture). However, I can imagine that you'd want to give the story another layer, and play the other side of a story- you play a chapter with Selan before she ever met Maxim, to name something. The nondependant chapters could also contain, or be called sidequests- monster X is on the loose on town Y, whatever- it more interesting of course, hehe.

The downside I can think of is the execution; when should a player be able to start a chapter, under which requirements? Level? Party composition? Items in stock? How do you take into account the entire world map? I mean, the map of the entire world doesn't have to be fully known yet by the time I'd write chapter one, to name something. In extra sidequests, for endgame material, this probably does have to be the case- which would require the entire worldmap to be included witht he chapter? Even if I should go to city X, city Y should still be accessable, NPC's and all. We'd really need to think this out if we'd do something like this :D

Oy... it's 1 AM already. As much as I like this discussion, and the ideas that flow from it... bedtime :P Keep it coming though, it's getting better!

Anthony

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Postby DarkMaster2101 » Sun May 17, 2009 2:14 am

For one thing, using this as a chapter? Where did you come up with that story?

What I mean by side story is that the story has absolutely nothing to do with the main plot. One of the things that has always been a standard to good RPG's is the optional things like side quests.

As for the execution: I don't feel like explaining not do I care.
[EDIT] I have no clue how I'm going to do it. But I am working on it.

Also remember to think common sense. Like a level 1 can't take a level 30 dungeon. The quests you download will be adjusted to your level.
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Postby Anthony » Sun May 17, 2009 8:52 am

...this is the second time I interpret your post as a rude 'attack'- I hope it's the fact that I didn't get any coffee yet, and that I'm wrong.

For one thing, using this as a chapter? Where did you come up with that story?


Read my post again, with a more open mind this time. What I was trying to say is that the implementation I had in mind would be sufficient to add your idea of sidequests.

As for the execution: I don't feel like explaining not do I care.


I find that shameful- designing a game is about more than just throwing ideas out there- the main purpose of this topic was to cover all aspects really, depending on how the discussion goes.

Also remember to think common sense. Like a level 1 can't take a level 30 dungeon. The quests you download will be adjusted to your level.


Hence the requirements I mentioned- figuring them out is not always an easy task, depending on lots of factors. Simply looking at the players level is not always enough- did you do sidequest A before playing B, did you talk to C, is C already in your party?

I hope we can continue this discussion on a normal tone from now on- if not, I see no reason for you to post, if all I get is "I don't feel like explaining not do I care"... if I indeed misinterpreted your post, feel feel to say so, and to see this as an apology :)

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Postby HegemonKhan » Wed May 20, 2009 7:30 am

i haven't read all the posts but here's my take on it:

lufia 2 is one of some of the best rpgs ever.

some of the best rpgs of all time:

*seiken densetsu 3 jap ("secret of mana 2 u.s.")
*lufia 2
*breath of fire 2
*final fantasy 6 jap (final fantasy 3 u.s.)

why is lufia 2 so awesome:

1. story. wow. simply unseen in all other rpgs. a true literary masterpiece. what game has u saving the world, marrying a beautiful girl, and having a kid with her, and (her) giving birth to the child in the middle of the game? and, than u have the kid stolen and at the very end of the game u and (i think) your wife give your lives to save the world? NONE, except lufia 2. what has some of the most funny and real dialogue and interaction between characters? NONE, exept lufia 2. lufia 2 is simply brilliant.

2. puzzles. (if u don't like puzzles than this isn't a positive obviously). but i like puzzles. and the puzzles are hard enough to be enjoyable, but not so hard that u simply can't figure them out. the puzzles are just perfect. perfect balance.

3. gameplay. wonderfully easy to learn and simple. controls and functions work very smoothly, between battles and doing the puzzles. really really top notch game play. i love how u can move around, freeze (with the puzzle items like arrow or hook), and avoid or fight the monsters moving around. it's all soo smooth and well done.

also, the game is both easy and hard. you can play through the game with ease or you can make it challenging and have to use strategy for battles. i love how it has the common mp-spell system and also the ip gear system. works great for everyone, beginners or pros.

4. geez...how could i forget... one of lufia 2's most endearing aspect: 2 completely different games in one. the normal lufia 2 main quest game...and.....the ANCIENT CAVE game :D

5. and many more reasons, that make lufia 2 such an incredible rpg.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lufia 2 is perfect. i wouldn't change a single thing. and i'd only add more of the great stuff it already has.

the only flaw of lufia 2 is the flaw that's common in all games: the bugs in the original version of the game (non-patched or modified).

fortunately, the bugs don't effect game play or item effects too much. most of the item effects and strategies still work. though a few don't, but it's no where near as bad as some games....like breath of fire 2....grrr..breath of fire 2 has some strategy ruining bugs...(6 dragon spells that all do neutral damage despite suppose to being elemental...etc..)

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Postby Superdreuzel » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:31 pm

What i like about Lufia II?
The music, its briliant
And, well, Idura is great too..
so.. that would be it..
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Postby DarkMaster2101 » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:50 am

DarkMaster2101 wrote:As for the execution: I don't feel like explaining not do I care.


I said this? What the hell!? Why in the holy name of Maxim did I say such an assolutely stupid thing. I can go AVGN with that rant. What was I thinking?

Well, the stuff I was saying was derailing the thread to ask how would a new game in general appeal to the audience.

About online multi-player. Not for a mainstream Lufia game, but for 4 player co-op with real time battles with Lufia stats maybe. But that would be a spin off.

HegemonKhan wrote:...

Do I have to quote, his reasons are as plain as day. To be honest I don't want to change Lufia II. I had a thread earlier about a Lufia I&II DS remake. The only thing I would say is fix the translation and enhance the presentation with better graphics and sound leaving the gameplay virtually untouched.

Having a Lufia two games in one might not be a bad idea. To be honest, I can't see one without the other storyline wise (well Lufia II at least, but not I).

Another note: About the AC. By combining two games in one, we could actually have a cross-generation Ancient Cave party. I can see it now:

Guy, Aguro, Dekar, and the pointy-eared guy (wait that's Arty). That would actutally bring forth more options.

Also, which would you rather pay for? $40 for a re-mastered Lufia I&II (which is virtually 3 games in one). $40 each for Lufia I and Lufia II, bringing a total of $80+. Or pay around a good amount of yen with a soundless cell phone port of Lufia II simplified like Lufia II. Wait, they already have that called Biography Estpolis.

As a game, heck Lufia I & II can stand out on their own. Another question is the economical aspect. How can we advertise the franchise's greatness while keeping minimum costs?
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Postby Volt » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:08 am

The soundtrack. It's the most orgasmic part of the entire game.


As for what I would change... the bosses. The AI could be better, as well as the difficulty. There are simply -NO- challenging bosses, except the egg-dragon (if you dont use the glitch) and Gordy Gades if you're new to the game. But thats it.


Oh, and I'd throw in a couple of sidequests.... the only sidequests this game has is the ancient cave and the dragoneggs... and the latter is fairly annoying to do as well (I only do it to fight eggy)


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