Replaying Lufia RoL

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Replaying Lufia RoL

Postby SinReVi » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:22 pm

I'm currently replaying Lufia The Ruins of Lore, though at a slow pace. (Currently 4 hours in, after 2 weeks of playing)

(PS I do like Ruins of Lore, but the other Lufia games are just better compared to it :P )

Anyway:

Things that Ruins of Lore did wrong:

- There are no savepoints in the dungeons! I'm complaining about this because the Quick-Save function stopped working on my cartridge! Which is the main reason I'm playing on emulator this time!

- There is only one save slot!

- Eldin is a mute protagonist. So he's far less interesting than the other Lufia protagonists.

Image
This is all Eldin says during the main story line =P

- There's lack of an antagonist you regularly meet. I mean you get to know a few things about Ragule but he only shows himself twice during the game! And the first time he barely says anything! And both times you meet him are spoiler? right before the ending
I think you got to fight a bunch of random Gratzean soldiers along the way but they don't have any personality.
(except for Cain the soldier who helps you)

- What where they thinking when they removed the IP attack system from Lufia II and TLR? Instead, we get to Install when the IP bar is filled... But you can't control the fusion and from what I remember from all my previous playthroughs Installing is just not worth it, except for avoiding attacks. Also, Bau and Dekar can't even use Disc Monsters so the IP bar is useless for them!

- Shared Experience. So everyone levels slowly if you have a bigger party.
For example if you gain 1000 Exp and you have a full party of 8, each will only gain 125 Exp.

- You can only customise Eldin, Torma and Rami, and they're also the only ones who can use Disc Monsters. Which means: Dekar and Bau can only attack and use items, they never learn any skills! They also can't Install (fuse) with monsters, so their IP bar is worthless! (Bau is actually a permanent Installation, so at least for him it makes sense he can't use IP)

- RoL never references Tia and Lexis =/ They should at least reference Lexis since he's famous. Meanwhile the game does reference Maxim, Selan, Guy, Artea, Berty and Bart, Lisa, Marie, Clare, Jessy, Jeros (not by name) and Camu (his armor's in the game) . Dekar himself is a playable character.


- Slow battle animations.

- Lufia II and TLR had monsters moving in dungeons when you move. In Lufia II and TLR they moved in patterns, which add some strategy in moving around, but in RoL they just run after you once they spot you!



Things Ruins of Lore did right:

- Job System: I like the job system because of the customising... too bad you can only teach Eldin, Torma and Rami skills. I mean, sure Dekar is a temporarily team member (though he stays for quite a while from what I remember) but at least let Bau learn some skills!

- Alchemist System: I like this system to make new items

- The Eristol backstory is interesting.

- I like how there are random animals in villages/dungeons

- More (visual) variety of dungeons compared to the Lufia games before it.

Other thoughts:

- They introduced Wild Fencers in this game (humans permanently installed (fused) with monsters), but they're nowhere to be seen in any of the other Lufia games.

- I completely forgot that by the time Ruins of Lore begins, Gratze already started the war. (it was still only at the east though)

- spoiler Will Eldin ever know about his past? And he's a mute so we don't even know if Eldin suspects he's adopted. Or any of his thoughts of what happens in the story for that matter. =/

- I'm in the Tower of Guidance right now and I remember there are a few exclusive monsters here that you won't be able to catch later in the game because... I don't even remember why you can't enter the tower until later in the game. The monsters will change later in the game. So, since I don't exactly remember which monsters are exclusive here (besides the baby dragon), I decided to just catch them all =P

- Just how old is Marin? A NPC described her as "that young vixen" or something. When you meet her she's already friends with Eldin, a 14 year old. Then she's flattered about getting presents and a love letter from Mr Cashwell's son, who is at least Eldin and Torma's age (probably just a bit older since he's taller, and by some comments from women I guess he's 17?) The game makes clear Marin likes Dekar and then the ending of the game shows spoiler Dekar, who is probably around 46 years old now, proposing to Marin.

- Eldin lives in Parcelyte but he went (goes?) to school in Gruberik?

- And they use a road to WALK from Parcelyte to Gruberik. But looking at the map they need to cross the ocean to reach Gruberik!

-Ragule gets the Ugliest Lufia Character Ever Award

- Now I think Ruins of Lore is very unlikely to happen in the Lufia DS universe. The whole thing that start the events of RoL is this: (exaggerated)
spoilerRagule: *comes out of nowhere* Hello King of Gratze! Let me help you rebuild your kingdom and restore your army! Oh and let's resurrect an ancient beast to make Gratze's army even more powerful!
King of Gratze: Wow what a great plan! Let's do it!


But in Lufia DS Gratze is not (spoiler) destroyed like in Lufia II, so there is no kingdom to restore. And besides that, instead of just a random king Ragule would have to convince Leon and Thea (and probably Jude as well) to start a war.

Might add more when I continue playing.
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Re: Replaying Lufia RoL

Postby Guard Daos » Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:51 pm

- They introduced Wild Fencers in this game (humans permanently installed (fused) with monsters), but they're nowhere to be seen in any of the other Lufia games.


That sounds cool, how does that work story-wise?

About the DS thing, I guess it could be a different kingdom? I mean, if they could turn Gordovan into a bridge, then why not give a kingdom a new name as well?
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Re: Replaying Lufia RoL

Postby SinReVi » Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:36 pm

haha I guess so.
And on one side I feel Ruins of Lore ruins the "99 years of peace" the world was supposed to get after the Battle of Doom Island. But on the other side this game shows that even when there are no evil gods around, that's not a guarantee for peace.

Lufia II: Everything is caused by the Sinistrals
Lufia RoL: Everything is a result of greedy humans.

Guard Daos wrote:That sounds cool, how does that work story-wise?

Mostly you see them among the normal townsfolk, but they're not as common as humans (Dekar has no idea what the term Wild Fencer means, Torma and Rami apparently know there are people who have joined with monsters and can't uninstall) (now that I've checked towns, Wild Fencers are far less common than in my memory =P there are just a few out there)

- It's rare for young people to permanently install
- In the present time they're not always accepted (Bau was being bullied and made fun of by kids (calling him a pet dog)and I think he also said something about being abused (by the hobbits he lived with?)
- In the past, there were a lot of Wild Fencers in Eristol's army. (spoiler? (there is a time portal in this game and you get to visit Eristol in the past)you only get to visit Eristol and Rangoon while you're in the past, so I don't know how common they are outside of armies)
- to quote a Rangoon dude "They're fighters who can use monster abilities" (oh yeah?! Why won't they Bau him learn any skills in actual gameplay?! :evil: )
- permanent installations can be done involuntarily? Bau only says "a Doben went inside him", it doesn't look like the permanent installation was his own choice.

Storyline spoiler The final boss is an implied Wild Fencer. Though one who is not good at keeping control of its power.
In the past Odin bred a very powerful monster but it went out of control, destroying Eristol (and the whole island it was on).
The ending reveals the soul of the Beast is actually Odin's soul, suggesting that Odin has installed with his own creation but couldn't control it. (the game is not clear whether he did it as a last resort or if he just did it to gain more power himself. Some text implies Odin tried to help taming the Beast, other text implies Odin is just evil. Anyway, most of the normal townsfolk look up to Odin, so that might explain the contradictions? )
Hmm maybe Odin tried to install with Goldiark to take full control of him, but was unable to uninstall leaving him permanently fused with Goldiark?



Explanation of Eristol for those who haven't played:
Eristol was a powerful country that once dominated the world, but was then destroyed as a result of a search for even more power. They don't give an exact timeframe other than that all of this happened centuries ago. They also were an advanced civilization.
Odin, a powerful man experimented a lot with monsters, breeding them and making them extremely powerful. (breeding: creating stronger monsters by one letting devour another monster. The monster will gain all power of the one it devoured)
Odin has far more power than Eristol's elder, and at some point Odin took complete control of Eristol (though the Elder is still the official leader). (The average Eristolians are shown to be lazy people)
Eventually, Odin created Goldiark, which later came known as the Beast. The beast was too strong to control however, and even the entire populace of Eristol couldn't defeat the beast. In the end, Eristol got destroyed but the ancients sealed the beast's soul inside the holy land and split his body in half. (and then Ragule (Odin's descendant) in the present timeline thinks it's a good idea to resurrect that beast)


Monster breeding is actually a gameplay element. Though gameplay wise you gain only one skill from a devoured monster, not all of them like one of the Eristolian dudes says =P My Foomy is now able to absorb HP (sorry random monster I caught to teach Foomy that skill!)


Image
I caught a red jelly which I named after Prince Alex. This time I want to spend more time with the monster breeding and I want to try to catch other Disc Monsters than the ones I usually did. (okay, but Foomy can stay in my party =P)


Booo RoL:
- You can't see the exact amount of HP/AP of the characters while in battle, which has caused me some trouble =P

- Diagonal walking. this makes it easier to get surprised by enemies.

- When you're surprised by monsters, they will have the first turn for the rest of the battle! Which can be very annoying, especially if you run into weaker monsters. Then you have to watch a group of weaklings attack you one by one (with slow animations!), before you can even escape the battle or finish them off.

Good job RoL:
They increased Goldiark's HP in the NA version (from 2100 to 8000) making this a far more interesting battle than in the Japanese version. Now he's actually worthy of how he's described in the story!
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Re: Replaying Lufia RoL

Postby Shade-Duelist » Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:01 pm

SinReVi wrote:haha I guess so.
And on one side I feel Ruins of Lore ruins the "99 years of peace" the world was supposed to get after the Battle of Doom Island. But on the other side this game shows that even when there are no evil gods around, that's not a guarantee for peace.

Lufia II: Everything is caused by the Sinistrals
Lufia RoL: Everything is a result of greedy humans.


That was my headcanon anyways. Greedy humans, ruining things for other greedy (or non-greedy) humans. We are fine species really. :?

SinReVi wrote:
Guard Daos wrote:That sounds cool, how does that work story-wise?

Mostly you see them among the normal townsfolk, but they're not as common as humans (Dekar has no idea what the term Wild Fencer means, Torma and Rami apparently know there are people who have joined with monsters and can't uninstall) (now that I've checked towns, Wild Fencers are far less common than in my memory =P there are just a few out there)

- It's rare for young people to permanently install
- In the present time they're not always accepted (Bau was being bullied and made fun of by kids (calling him a pet dog)and I think he also said something about being abused (by the hobbits he lived with?)
- to quote a Rangoon dude "They're fighters who can use monster abilities" (oh yeah?! Why won't they Bau him learn any skills in actual gameplay?! :evil: )
- permanent installations can be done involuntarily? Bau only says "a Doben went inside him", it doesn't look like the permanent installation was his own choice.


Oh wow, that sounds like a wonderful yet terrible mechanic... now I might need to look into RoL too... damn...

(Also Dekar, you're so great, but you're soooo oblivious...)

SinReVi wrote:Image
I caught a red jelly which I named after Prince Alex. This time I want to spend more time with the monster breeding and I want to try to catch other Disc Monsters than the ones I usually did. (okay, but Foomy can stay in my party =P)


:wink: Prince Alex is a red jelly. I have always known. :mrgreen: (just kidding, but that's really a great funny you made there, SinReVi. Alex the jelly *giggles*)
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Re: Replaying Lufia RoL

Postby SinReVi » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:12 am

Image
Alex is now a blue jelly!
Hmmm, the two final evolutions of the jelly look bad-ass, so I guess I'll keep Alex in my main team =P
(Red Jelly > Blue Jelly OR Green Jelly > Neo Jelly > Jelly Lord)
Speaking of Jelly Lords... *suddenly remembers that one boss fight in the Ancient Cave where you have to fight three Jelly Lords that have a very annoying poisoning attack*

And now I also remember why I never spent much time breeding monsters: because I get attached to them =P Teaching a monster a skill to another means the one that originally has that skill, will disappear forever! (and since it takes forever to gain exp (because it's divided) you'll probably have to spend some time to grow a monster)

You can catch (nearly) all monsters in this game and they'll act like a Capsule Monster.
Only exceptions are bosses and some human-like enemies (no, you can't catch a Gratzean Soldier and keep him in your team =P)

- What where they thinking when they removed the IP attack system from Lufia II and TLR? Instead, we get to Install when the IP bar is filled... But you can't control the fusion and from what I remember from all my previous playthroughs Installing is just not worth it, except for avoiding attacks. Also, Bau and Dekar can't even use Disc Monsters so the IP bar is useless for them!

So far I still agree with this. Installs never take any damage (and they'll uninstall after a few turns but I'd have to check how many. 5 I guess?) They also have only 1 attack that they use!

Installing with Maxim the Foomy (okay, a Mousse M) resulted in Mousse L, with Fatal Blow as his attack... WHICH MISSES NEARLY ALL OF THE TIMES! And when it does hit, it doesn't do that much damage anyway.

Installing with Alex the Blue Jelly resulted in a Neo Jelly which just uses Heal Full for all turns... on himself!

These two are just 2 star Disc Monsters, so I hope the fully grown monsters result in better Installations =P At least they look cool from what I remember.

*puts cartridge in gba*

Golden Fox + Rami: Results in Light God. Attack is Rising Sun which attacks all enemies,and it missed all its targets but one, which took only 1 damage =/ I'm guessing the miss/1 damage might be because the Golden Fox is Rami's Disc Monster, and she's no good for physical attacks ...

Muse + Eldin: Results in Holy Elf using Miracle on...him/herself? (idk Eldin is a dude but the monster he fused with looks like a girl) It heals Eldin's HP (not sure about AP) but this is pretty useless since the Muse learns the Angelic Melody skill, which heals 600 HP of all active members, for just 15 AP.

Dark Wolf + Torma: Results in Zeth and uses Hell Slash, which actually does a lot of damage (against one enemy) Finally a decent install!
*after uninstalling*
Hey wait a minute! Torma's normal attack does the same damage! In that case this fusion is also dumb!

Storyline complaint:
-Eldin just got cursed and is told the curse might lead to his death. He is then told to visit the holy land to look for a way to undo the curse since nobody in Nazare knows how to do it. IMO that curse is just a way of forcing Eldin on this journey after he finished his job for Rubius! The curse is only mentioned three times in the entire game if I remember correctly.
And when you finally get to the holy land,(spoiler) the only things you do there is kick Ragule and Goldiark's ass and then everyone immediately LEAVES and CLOSES the entrance! (they're also told to destroy the stones/shard to open the entrance so nobody can come in again) What happened to undoing Eldin's curse? Is he just going to drop dead some time after the ending?

randomness:
Eldin: ...! ...! ...? (Stoooooooooooop! I don't wanna leave yet! What about my curse?)
Torma:: Did you say something?
Eldin: ...! ...! (I don't want to die! Do something about my curse!)
Torma: You should learn how to speak, Eldin! Anyway, let's go home! *drags Eldin out of the holy land and closes the entrance!
Eldin: ...!!! (Grrr %&$%^@#$!@^!#&!!!


The only thing I like about the curse is
(more spoiler) it's the first hint that Eldin is from Eristol, since only ancients would be able to trigger that curse (Eldin messed up and got hit by a defense mechanism that cursed him). He doesn't actually know he's from Eristol but the game hints that Eldin is the baby that was put through a time portal in Eristol when the Beast was destroying stuff in the past. Which also means that Rand and May are not Eldin's biological parents. Rand also says their family doesn't have ancient blood and Eldin's the only one who does. )

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And RoL has a snowy mountain and wall climbing years before Lufia DS did =P
It also has character specific puzzle skills (but Dekar doesn't do anything and you can't walk around as him either)
You also travel with a priestess that you can't use in battle. Unlike Iris, you can play as Rubius. Her skill is reading ancient text, but it's only useful in a few locations.
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Re: Replaying Lufia RoL

Postby Shade-Duelist » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:18 am

SinReVi wrote:Image
Alex is now a blue jelly!
Hmmm, the two final evolutions of the jelly look bad-ass, so I guess I'll keep Alex in my main team =P
(Red Jelly > Blue Jelly OR Green Jelly > Neo Jelly > Jelly Lord)


*happydances* Wooh evolution! Grow Alex grow!

SinReVi wrote:(no, you can't catch a Gratzean Soldier and keep him in your team =P)


That's a big downside right there, I always wanted my own Gratzean Soldier ;P

SinReVi wrote:Image
And RoL has a snowy mountain and wall climbing years before Lufia DS did =P
It also has character specific puzzle skills (but Dekar doesn't do anything and you can't walk around as him either)


Poor Dekar, getting no use whatsoever. (Also I see you ice-wall-climbing as Dekar there, and I appreciate. He's a really great character in Lufia DS and I'm not just saying that because I have a tiny little bit of an obsession with him. I love allrounders sooooooo much. It's one of the reasons I always loved Secret of Mana (dunno if you know it, if not you should look into it :wink: ), because all three of your chars there can use all weapons. Even if a sprite child using a spear looks ridiculous.)

SinReVi wrote:You also travel with a priestess that you can't use in battle. Unlike Iris, you can play as Rubius. Her skill is reading ancient text, but it's only useful in a few locations.


Some usefulness is better than no usefulness. Wise words of some Duelist. :wink:
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Re: Replaying Lufia RoL

Postby SinReVi » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:46 pm

Things I suddenly remembered:

- After a certain point of the game, I felt the game was getting less interesting. After leaving the time portal in Eristol and returning to the present time Well, I'll see how it goes this time =P

- There is a game breaking bug. If you reach high levels (I guess 80-90) there's a chance your character will suddenly become a weakling!
Now the good thing is that you're very unlikely to even become lv80-90, since you gain levels very slowly because of the shared EXP.

Random fact: I've actually finished Ruins of Lore more times than Lufia I and Lufia TLR =P
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